Claude Racine: Postpartum Is Not The Baby Blues

Postpartum Reality And The Clancy Case

1:12 Michael: When a new life enters a home, the world usually expects a honeymoon of joy and gratitude. But for millions of families, the reality of the postpartum period is an overwhelming plunge into darkness. It's a silent, terrifying wave of depression, anxiety, deep identity loss. Caregiving in this season isn't just about feeding a baby. It's about trying to survive the total dismantling of your mind, your body, and your family's normal routine. I'm Michael McNiac, the host of Holding It Together kinda.

1:52 Michael: So welcome everyone. I'm recording this right on the heels of the very famous Clancy case out of Massachusetts, where a mom suffering from postpartum psychosis is accused of uh killing her children. And as of this date, the jury has is is hung and there's been a mistrial uh declared. So it's really important that we understand a bit more about what's going on uh with postpartum, and it's a it's an aspect of caregiving that, frankly, until I met my guest today, I had not um even thought of. So Claude Racine is joining me today.

2:41 Michael: Claude is amazing. She's a former professional dancer and choreographer. Now she's really involved with wellness advocacy. Uh, she maintains uh her her dancing and her choreography and teaching. I guess most importantly, she will probably tell you that she's a mother and a wife, and that is how she identifies proudly and loudly, and that's wonderful because Claude is right out there, man. She does not hold back. I love that about her. So when she was involved with postpartum depression and other uh health struggles, she really had to change the way that she thought about herself and her family and her status as a woman, as mother, as uh wife.

3:43 Michael: Uh, you know. It's it's it's an amazing talk, and and she's an amazing person. So I'm really glad that she uh agreed to be here with us today.

3:54 Michael: Hello and welcome everybody. I am here today with Claude Racine, who I admire tremendously since we met. Um, she is full of piss and vinegar, and you will see that in this discussion. I love that. And I love the fact that she's laughing and her infectious smile. Claude and I met on Victoria Cure's Contagious Smile podcast, where I do a co-hosting gig about every week.

Why Caregiving Moms Get Overlooked

4:23 Michael: And it occurred to me during that conversation that one of the things in the caregiving perspectives that I have overlooked is the caregiver that is a mom. And we could talk every single day, moms, because every single day moms are way different than the rest of the, as I would say, normal people out there. Um and and and caregiving moms are different than dads, and and it's and it's okay, it's awesome. It is what it is. So I asked Claude to come on here and talk to me about that because during that episode with Victoria, we got into talking about her postpartum issues.

5:06 Michael: And and she moved me tremendously when, and I'm talking to her and about her as if she's not right here. One of the things, one of the things that really moved me, Claude, was when you talked about how you had this awakening where you decided, you know what, screw this. I am a mom, I am a wife, I am a family, I and I'm loud and proud about it. I'm putting it out there, and that's what I am, that's what I want to be. Yeah. You know, and that's I mean, I guess part of that has to come from your background.

5:40 Michael: So tell everybody why that was so monumental in your life. Because if for those who don't know about your professional dancing and and your background, I think it's impactful to hear how you got there from your background.

Claude’s Hustle Identity And Upbringing

5:57 SPEAKER_00: So I was born in Montreal, and then my dad moved us to the States when I was eight and then to Arkansas. And then at 20 years old in 2002, I decided to move to LA to pursue a dance career. But growing up, I was very much a daddy's girl. I was very much wanted to be in the garage with him. I wanted to do things that like excited my dad. And like, unfortunately, dance was not one of those things, but I asked him, like, can I play hockey? And he'd say, like, no, girls don't play hockey. He was very traditional in that sense.

6:33 SPEAKER_00: And, you know, we would watch movies and I would like, I'm I don't cry, I'm tough like my dad. Like, I wanted to be, you know, a guy's girl, and I was. So I was never the girlfriend that was like nagging or complained because I viewed everything that a woman represented in a very negative way. We're weak, we're too emotional, we are, you know, just all the things. And part of that was created by things that I heard my dad say growing up about women, about my mom. Now, I don't blame him at all, like at all, but it is important to say, I think, for all the dads out there, like just watch what you say about women in front of your daughters and your sons and say about men.

7:25 SPEAKER_00: Like it goes both ways, right? So, all that to say, I was like hustle mode. My dad worked, so I was a hustler. I moved to LA, I started pursuing a dance career, and it was go mode all the time. There was no rest ever. You know, you're either training or you're auditioning or you're taking headshots or you're on a job. And at 38 years old, I decide, oh, you know, I think having a kid, I never wanted kids. I never wanted to get married, never wanted kids. Then I met my husband and I knew the first day we hung out he was my husband.

8:02 SPEAKER_00: And I said it to my best friend, Ed and I called her and I said, fuck, like, I think I just met my husband. Like he's my husband. And so we get married two and a half years later, and then I start thinking, like, oh, you know, it would be cool to have a kid with him specifically. And so we did. And you know, that whole like, I'm a dude, I don't cry, I don't rest, hustle, hustle. I'm sorry, but when you have a kid, like you can't do that, you can't be that.

8:37 Michael: Right. Somewhere it's it's gotta slow down, calm down a little, and and and adjust. There's gotta be adjustments made.

8:46 SPEAKER_00: Yes, and that that can be jarring for some women that you have been this identity for so long of this independent woman. And mind you, our society very much applauds that the independent, you know, boss bitch, millionaire. That's what's so funny.

9:06 Michael: It it's funny, it's it, but it's interesting how you you say that our society applauds it, and we do, yeah. We encourage it, but at the same time on the other hand, we also like our like our women, you know, like your dad did, you know, the traditional, it's it's such a weird tug of war you guys, I guess, have to play, right?

9:28 SPEAKER_00: I feel like yes, and like men's roles are so clear. There's no question about what a man should do. He should protect and he should provide. In all of history, you have been the ones to go out, hunt, go to war. Like you didn't see us like we're going to battle.

9:48 Michael: Unless you were in the ancient Rome or the Amazonian rainforest, right? But no, but but but you're right. I mean, and those are myth myths. So, yes, I men hunt and gather and women nest, as scientists say.

12:42 SPEAKER_00: And like if there's ever danger around, I'm not saying that women cannot train to be able to defend themselves.

12:49 Michael: No, of course not, no.

12:50 SPEAKER_00: Sure. But would I rather my husband protect me from harm?

12:56 SPEAKER_03: Yes, right, right.

12:58 SPEAKER_00: One million percent. And I think that making that switch from I'm the provider of myself, I'm independent, I take care of myself, I do all things, uh, to okay, like I literally can't work now because dancing ha includes my body, and I have a big belly and postpartum, you can't even walk for the first few days. So you're not, I have to relinquish that and become a nurturer and become caring about someone else. Like, yeah, I cared for my husband, but I was very selfish as a dancer. You pursue life for you, you know.

13:43 Michael: Yeah, that's an interesting perspective for sure, because you're right. I mean, you you you can be involved in a relationship, you could be involved and love somebody dearly, like you and your husband, but the you know, you can still have a selfishness uh reserved there. And that's not and that the and and that's in folks, that's inherent in every single one of us. It really it really is. And then I think the we're for women, obviously for women, the the child bringing bringing a child into the world, be or having the child for nine plus months in your belly developing, that really has to mean something that we men just cannot grapple with.

14:29 Michael: And and for all the women that are sitting out there that have been through this, you know, been through this, I say it like it's so such a rare thing. In other words, for all you moms out there, Claude opened my eyes to this very special and and I'm not stupid, I'm not naive, but Claude and I in our discussion, it was really eye-opening that there is a whole different set of standards for caregiving when it comes to being a lump. Period, stop. Then you throw in this postpartum thing, right? And that has to, I mean, so not only did you get thrown for a loop because now your I am woman, hear me roar, gets turned on its head, and now it's turned on its head, and you say, Well, I don't know if I can do this, I don't even know if I want to do this because my now my brain, my hormones are all fucked up, and now I'm gonna turn it on the other side and go the opposite direction, right?

15:23 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a responsibility point, you know, when you're alone and it's just you, you're responsible for you. Maybe you have a dog and you're responsible for the dog. Okay, fine. Maybe you have a husband and you can sort of be responsible for him, but that person is really responsible for themselves. Like at any point, like at any point, I can be like, you know what? I don't want this anymore. See you later. When you have a baby that now you're responsible for you're forced into this responsibility that is unknown to you.

16:02 SPEAKER_00: And there's no like roadmap, there's no, there's nothing. And the worst part of it is is like the expectation and the picture that society has painted and media of what it is like to be a mom. It's this beautiful, easy, like, oh, I'm so in love situation.

Independence Collides With New Motherhood

16:20 SPEAKER_00: Oh, look at my baby, and I'm breastfeeding. And like, that is not the case for most moms. It's very, it's a very hard transition. Breastfeeding is not as easy as everyone makes it look. And your ideas of like, oh yeah, you know, I'll breastfeed my baby at 3 a.m. and we'll just go back to sleep.

16:42 Michael: Yeah, right. Yeah.

16:43 SPEAKER_00: No, you've got to be able to do that.

16:44 Michael: You have other issues that go along with that too, in terms of guilt. Like my my daughter's mom could not produce the right amount of breast milk for our our the baby. So it was she was basically hungry all the time, you know, because it wasn't enough. But so then you got guilt around that, and it's but and it's it is unknown.

17:06 SPEAKER_00: Like you don't know, like, is he did he eat enough? Was there enough breast milk? Or he's crying and he's beating up your chest, and you're like, what is it? You don't like the way the milk tastes? Is it is it is the letdown too fast? Is it too slow? Are you not getting enough? And you're just like right, and the baby can't tell you.

17:26 Michael: Yeah, so you have this this image of what you know, this this polyannic, I think like Leave It to Beaver 1950s sitcom about what motherhood should be like. Yeah. And then and you know, I I again I hate to bring it up, but this is we're recording this right on the heels of the um the uh case involving the Clancy case in Massachusetts with the mom who had postpartum psychosis and is alleged to have killed her kids. I don't think there's any question that she did, but the defense is that she had the psychosis, it was missed, it was not treated, and it led to the unfortunate death of her children.

18:09 Michael: And and I think that it's really important to have this discussion because both women and men poo-poo this concept, they poo-poo the concept of postpartum. Oh, it's the baby blues, you'll get over it. Oh, here, take a pill, or you know, you'll go take a nap, you'll get over it, it's gonna go away. And I think that's a very scary and unfortunate place for us to be, but but it's so rampant, and I think that's one of the main reasons that this case is so uh titillating to so many people. Would you agree with that?

18:44 SPEAKER_00: Absolutely. I mean, again, you're just looking at a massive unknown. People do not understand or know what is going on with people. People don't understand people, like they're calling her a monster, and yes, like the act itself is horrific, horrific, right? Horrific. I could not imagine. What I can relate to is that I was very much willing to take my own life during that time because I could not and did not want to confront the life that I was now like forced to live. And I know that sounds terrible, but that was my reality.

19:29 SPEAKER_00: And the problem is, is that's what I'm going through. If I say it to someone, they're judging me.

19:36 SPEAKER_03: Right.

19:37 SPEAKER_00: If I say it to someone, they're like, it's uh you'll be okay, it can't be that bad. No, like I think about blowing my head off all day long. I don't think this is normal.

19:48 Michael: And that's what I was gonna get at. Uh number one, you're absolutely correct that we will sit back and we will, oh, poor pretty little dance girl, now she's got a baby, now she's gonna be depressed, you know? Or, you know, grow up, like yeah, suck it up, buttercup kind of a thing. And and we're that's how we are, that's how that's that's the way we've been trained. And a lot of it has to do with our unwillingness to accept any type of malady that impacts the brain and personality, right? As a society, we we're just screwed up when it comes to that.

20:23 Michael: But you also have this added side of you were the tough girl, you were the independent-minded woman, the career woman. You were a mover and shaker in your career. You still not that you aren't now, but I'm talking before the baby. Sure. And and and but given all of that history that you brought to the table, I gotta believe on some level, well, maybe not. I was gonna say, it must have really been a long process for you to feel like you couldn't overcome this, or did you just instantly say, Oh my god, this is not me.

20:55 Michael: I'm feeling really shitty. I gotta do something about this.

21:01 SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what was going on at first, and it hit me, it hit me very hard and very instantly.

21:07 SPEAKER_03: Really?

21:08 SPEAKER_00: It was like three days after having my son. I'm at the restaurant with my husband, and all of a sudden I'm like, I'm in tears, and I'm like, please. I over the course of like the year after having my son, I would look at my husband and I I would beg him to like tell me it's gonna be okay. Like, just tell me it's gonna be okay. Because right now it feels like it's not, it feels like I'll never have my life back, I'll never sleep again. Like I ruined my life. That's what I I thought all the time. My thoughts were like, I just want to go back to my life before, where I could choose when I slept and when I traveled and when I did anything.

21:47 SPEAKER_00: I just want to go back to that, and then what is the future like now? Like, I can't and that's how you know, like, it's not rational.

21:58 Michael: Yeah. You know, it's not but it's gotta be so I mean almost debilitating, and and I can imagine how how that you grieve, you feel resentment, you feel guilt, you feel grief, you feel all these different emotions. I it's gotta I can't even imagine.

22:19 SPEAKER_00: It's I don't even know, like, and that's and and too, you as you were saying, like who I was before, like I was very happy. I was I didn't know depression, I didn't know anxiety, I didn't know those things right until 38 years old. And I'm like, where is this coming from? Like, I it just like turns on, like a light switch goes on, and all of a sudden, like you're in panic mode. And I was never worried about Nova. Like, I knew that man was gonna live, I knew he was gonna survive, he was healthy, he was a baby, like he's gonna be fine.

22:51 SPEAKER_00: Me, on the other hand, like I don't know if I'm gonna make it. And I think having a baby is twofold because you think I'm feeling all these ways. Like, I just want to fucking give up. But I have to constantly keep showing up for this baby and breastfeed him in the middle of the night by myself and and play with him and put him down for his six naps a day. And like, all I want to do is sit at a table and have a dinner with a glass of wine and not be interrupted. Like, it's so selfish when I say it out loud, but that was the transformation of like letting go of that version of myself that was only able to care for self.

23:33 SPEAKER_00: And that fucking sucked. It's like, oh no, like take me back to when it was easier to when it was, you know.

The Myth Of Effortless Motherhood

23:42 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

23:42 Michael: Do you think that super secretly on some level a lot of women go through that feeling of yeah? I I I think you got to. I mean, I don't know. I'm not a woman, and and I never asked my baby, you know, my my kids' moms if if they had that feeling of, but I mean, I think it's human nature to say, man, it was a lot better last week before this baby was here.

24:06 SPEAKER_00: Like you cannot deny that whatever, however, you feel, and I hope that all new moms feel great up here, but that there is a transition there from being a single woman alone to having a baby and learning all of what that means, and like your body is you know, your hormones drop by 300%.

24:35 Michael: That's crazy.

24:37 SPEAKER_00: So when you're pregnant, you're like progesterone and all the hormones, and your hair is beautiful, and everyone's really sweet to you, like, oh my god, you know, and sit here and oh, can I carry that for you? And then you have the baby, and it's like literally the life is just pushed out of you, and the hormones drop. So there is a hormonal effect there. But things should balance out, you know, over like six, eight weeks or whatever. I can't put a timeline on it. People kept telling me, like, you'll feel better in a couple weeks.

25:14 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and a year later I was like, Did they use that voice when they said that? Yeah, that's thankful.

25:20 Michael: That's the voice I would use if I saw you then. Yeah.

25:24 SPEAKER_00: But I think a lot of women like this whole thing of yeah, you're right. It is a huge blessing to have this baby. I should be grateful. You're fucking right. Thank you for reminding me that I should be grateful and so in love with my baby. The fucking problem is, is I'm fucking not.

25:42 Michael: Yeah. Yeah.

25:43 SPEAKER_00: So now what?

25:44 Michael: So now what? Yeah, fix me. I'm sure nobody wanted to be fixed more than you. Right.

25:50 SPEAKER_00: I mean, I will say, like, after two weeks, my my husband, like when he would leave me, because he w could still work, he could still go on like bike rides on the weekend. And I would just panic. Like I did not want to not have someone around me with my baby. Like I I felt like I needed constant support and help.

26:13 Michael: Did you feel like you were a threat to the baby?

26:15 SPEAKER_00: No, not a threat to the baby. My biggest fear was that like I couldn't handle when Nova would start to cry and that I couldn't help him. Like, what if I can't, what if I can't figure out why he's crying and get him to stop?

26:32 Michael: And does that does that exasperate the situation? Does that make me worse? And you just so now it's like a it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, right?

26:40 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's like a trigger. Every time Nova starts to cry a little bit, that that anxious feeling in my stomach or in my gut just starts and just ramps up. And so if no Noah wasn't around to like help me, I felt helpless. Like because I'm going through my own things and can't manage my own emotions. I'm like, oh, and now I have to like help you, this baby, with your what you're going through. And I feared that I wouldn't be able to without him. And one day he looked at me, he goes, You need to get it together.

27:22 SPEAKER_00: Because now your your stuff is starting to affect me. So well, so because of where I was mentally, anger is actually if you look at an emotional tone scale, anger is higher than like apathy sadness. Anger rather have somebody be angry than like, oh, poor me, right? And like that state of mind. I was so low in that apathy place that I couldn't even get angry. I wish that I could have come up tone into anger, but I I couldn't even, so I would feel sorry for myself and be like, okay, I have two choices.

28:09 SPEAKER_00: I have to pretend like I'm okay. Because if I don't, like my husband's saying he's just like I'm what is he gonna do? Like I'm now affecting his life. So part of the reason why that whole time I wanted to kill myself was because I didn't want to create the effect I was creating on people around me. I was like, they'll be better without this dark, heavy, horrible feeling around them.

28:40 Michael: Really? Oh, yeah. That's horrible. But and I want to say, in his defense, he didn't mean it in a way that was selfish or anything like that, I don't think. I think he was saying that what you're going through is starting to impact the whole house, and we gotta figure it out. Is that what I mean?

28:58 SPEAKER_00: He didn't say he said get it together because it's now starting to affect like me and his ability to like leave when he wants to leave and go do what he wants to do.

29:09 SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

29:10 SPEAKER_00: Which he again, there's just no understanding of what's really going on with me. He had no idea, right?

29:20 Michael: Yeah, and that was abundantly unhelpful to say it that way.

29:23 SPEAKER_00: If that's you know yes, and obviously that's not his what's the word I'm looking for? His intent. That wasn't his intention. Yeah. But I can't imagine like I wouldn't want that energy around me. The energy that I was, oh, please don't go, like, no, don't leave me, like, and then just crying, like, don't leave me, please. Like, I'm scared, and I like that's a lot.

29:48 Michael: Well, it's almost like you're pushing them out the door in a way. Please don't go, you know. But it's but at the same time, it's like, I gotta get the hell away from you because you are such a a downer, right? Such a dark cloud, and right.

30:00 SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's and I've always been hyper aware of the effect that I'm creating on others.

Intrusive Thoughts And Suicidal Ideation

30:05 SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be like, it's none of their, it's not their problem. My problems aren't their problems. Like, I'm not here to be like, oh, well, listen to me and my problems, and like that's not what I've ever been about. So when he said that, like I just went into fear of, well, now what do I do? Like, he doesn't understand how bad this is.

30:31 SPEAKER_03: Right, right.

30:32 SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to tell him. I don't even know, like, what the fuck? I don't know how to explain it. Now so, you know, when Nova was six months old, we went to my husband's sister's birthday party, and I I will never forget this. We're walking down in front of her apartment, and he says something about like how I'm really hard to handle right now, or you know, he's and I looked at him and I said, I will trade you places any day. I don't fucking feel sorry for you because at least you're not standing there thinking about wanting to blow your brains out all day, every day.

31:12 SPEAKER_00: Like I would play that, and my husband had a gun. I knew exactly where it was, and the movie was the same from start to end every time. Walking there, taking the box down, opening it up, taking it, and then and I was like, this is a movie that won't stop.

31:28 Michael: Really? Now, is that a common psychological component to postpartum?

31:34 SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's I mean it's a really good question. I think I think the because you're experien Low, go because you're experiencing like just dog it to dog everybody, not not the husband or the child because you're experiencing such discomfort and it's so like it's irrational. It's not like you know it's not you, but you can't, you don't know how to fix it. So you come up with solutions, you you just want relief, right? So that is going to manifest, I think, differently depending on the woman of like what her what okay.

32:23 SPEAKER_00: So before we can go any further, I need to say this one thing. So I am a Scientologist, and what we believe is that we have an analog, an analytical mind, and a reactive mind. The reactive mind is what stores all your pain, trauma, losses from when you were young and before you can remember to now. And it uses it against you with like trigger, it gets triggered, and then it uses it against you without you even knowing it.

32:51 SPEAKER_03: Okay.

32:52 SPEAKER_00: So everyone is has this reactive mind, and it's going to offer up different irrational, reactive solutions to solving problems. So in the case of like Lindsay Clancy, for instance, her solution was her solution.

33:12 Michael: Right.

33:13 SPEAKER_00: To end it all, just make it stop. Mine was like, I definitely had no like thoughts or pictures or ever of hurting Nova. But I definitely was willing to take myself out to just like so everyone could have some relief from me.

33:30 Michael: Oh my god.

33:31 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I yeah, like that's the thing, is it is really dark. Yeah, it's dark, it is dark, and no one confronting like evil, the reactive mind is essentially like as close to evil as you can get. And like, no one wants to confront evil. It's easier to say, oh my god, like she's a mobster, she's this, or how could you think that? I don't fucking know how I could think that. I have a good idea of this reactive mind, like is well, plus your hormones crash 300%.

34:03 Michael: You had something real called postpartum depression. Lindsay Clancy had postpartum psychosis, which in in in in in full disclosure, I had never heard of until this case. Until psychosis is way different than depression.

34:19 SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think people can my humble opinion, Michael, is you know that world, we don't have to get deep into this, but like psychiatry and all that, they can assign names to whatever they want to assign names to.

34:36 SPEAKER_03: Agreed.

34:37 SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, I do believe that it is just the reactive mind. And whether I was experiencing psychosis, anxiety, depression, like it's all the same fucked up thing. I agree.

34:52 Michael: Yeah, I don't have a problem with that. I I do agree. It's just varying degrees, I suppose, or however you want to put it on, put whatever label you want to put on it, it's still something that was very real to you at the time. That's right. It was something very real that your husband and the rest of your loved ones were experiencing. So along those lines, I don't know if there's an answer. Do you think there's anything that he or they could have done to help the situation, or it was just a biochemical mind meld fuck that was just crushing you?

What Partners Miss And What Helps

35:26 Michael: You got goosebumps.

35:27 SPEAKER_00: Yeah. Um, I think you know, all anyone ever wants is like just to be acknowledged.

35:40 SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

35:41 SPEAKER_00: So when I say I'm not fucking well, just like Lindsay Clancy, she told so many people I'm having intrusive thoughts. Hello, hi. For somebody to like really go, wow, like that sound that's horrible that you're going through that. That is awful. As opposed to saying it's gonna be okay, you know, it'll pass. Don't worry about it. I just want some wanted somebody to like acknowledge how horrible what I was going through was and not have to scream it. And I you know, I remember telling someone one day, like, no one's gonna believe me unless I actually fucking take myself out.

36:27 SPEAKER_00: And that's that's where you get to. You're like, somebody just see me.

36:32 SPEAKER_03: Really?

36:33 SPEAKER_00: Just see me. Like, don't make me feel crazy, or like it's not that big of a deal. Like, just see me.

36:40 Michael: But I you know, when I sit here and I look at you and and listen to you and talk to you, and it's hard for me to imagine that about you. You are such a cocksure, strong person, yeah, that it's hard for me, and I granted I don't know you that well, but it's hard for me to imagine that this this person that's in front of me can possibly be there. So I it's I'm I'm not making excuses for myself or others. I'm just saying that your strike is probably one of the downfalls when you had this going up because other people were just like, Oh, she'll be fine.

37:19 Michael: Look at she's just puffed all clothes, she's gonna, you know.

37:22 SPEAKER_00: Yep, you nailed it on the head. You know, what do you mean?

37:25 Michael: Sorry to do, I'm sorry that I nailed it on the head because it sucks, but it's reality. It's yeah, and and we can only deal with the reality that we know.

37:34 SPEAKER_00: That's right. And that's why it's important to like say it, and especially for husbands, because or the dads, you know, they play such a big role. Once I said that to my husband, like this is my reality, he put himself aside. He never made anything about him. Like, he knew that I was not in a place that I could actually manage my own emotions. And my mom the other day looked at me, she goes, I'm so sorry that I like didn't take you more seriously and that I wasn't more helpful. She's like, All I knew how to do was to tell you that one day you'll feel better and you'll get back to like yourself.

38:14 SPEAKER_03: Right.

38:15 SPEAKER_01: But she would none of us know what the hell what to say. And did so along those lines, does science know? Do the doctors know? Is there medication? Is there harvest pharmacological stuff?

38:27 SPEAKER_00: No, and I'll tell you the only thing that knows, and this is I if something has helped me, I will tell you this. The only thing that did help me was Scientology, because if I didn't have that, I wouldn't have I understood what was going on, you see. So if I know that I have like my reactive mind and my analytical mind, and I know that this is my reactive mind, I can think with that. So when I was happy, even though the thoughts were coming in, I my analytical mind was still aware that that shit wasn't fucking real.

39:05 SPEAKER_00: So it's not that like, oh, Scientology will fix it all, but you sure as hell will be able to handle it better.

Making Sense Of Mental Health Labels

39:14 SPEAKER_00: And it's because of Dianetics, which is basically just means through the mind. And it's a book called Dianetics the Modern Science of Mental Health. So I don't think, and this is me, I'm not here to convince anyone. This is this is just what I know and what I've studied and and what helped me. And when I was at my worst, I reached out to what we call an auditor, which is basically like our counselors, and she was like, Have you ever thought about maybe going to check like your blood work or or check on your body?

39:50 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I was like, No, because my whole life I've been healthy.

39:55 Michael: Interesting.

39:55 SPEAKER_00: I've been skinny, I could eat what I want. I didn't, what do you mean a body problem? And lo and behold, when she said that, it made me feel like, oh, maybe it's not like my mind that's fucked up. Like it is, but maybe it's because my body is, and there is a gut-brain connection.

40:16 Michael: Interesting.

40:16 SPEAKER_00: So I went and got my gut checked out, and it was fucked 13 ways to Sunday, and I had an autoimmune disease.

40:22 Michael: Yeah, I want to, I definitely want to get into that too. Uh, if you if you don't mind, that's up to you. But what one last thought on this, and and again, yeah, Scientology, Judaism, Muslim, whatever. I it doesn't matter to me what what way you rationalize or the fact that matters that you were able on some level happily to rationalize what was going on in your brain.

40:47 SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.

40:48 Michael: And I would I would submit, you know, I was doing a uh a talk this morning when we were talking about the impact of severe mental illness where people cannot rationalize, you cannot think. Correct. You're so lucky that you had that that teaching earlier that you had the two sides of the brain and you recognized. So that's fantastic.

41:12 SPEAKER_00: And like in Scientology, there's a state that we like, you know, like in Buddhism, people are trying to attain the state of what is it?

41:22 Michael: Not Zen, but kind of like Zen. What the heck?

41:25 SPEAKER_00: I don't remember the yeah, you know, like total transcendence, where like yes, peace, and okay, so in Scientology, sort of our version of that is is attaining the state of clear, which means that you have actually gotten rid of the reactive mind. Okay, okay, and when I had Nova, I was clear. So to me, it was like, okay, I got rid of my reactive mind, but I'm still experiencing these things because there is more to do even once you are clear, there's more I call it shit to get rid of. You know, everyone's trying to get rid of whatever.

42:05 Michael: You got other stuff to work on, right?

42:07 SPEAKER_00: Right. But because I was clear and I didn't have my reactive mind, my analytical mind was still there, like I told you earlier. I could still look at the thought and go, what the fuck? Like, no, you're not doing that. Where someone who still has their reactive mind and doesn't understand analytical reactive, the reactive mind fully takes over. There's no more like, what's the right thing to do? They're just in full reactive mode.

42:38 Michael: Yeah, for my purposes, I'll call it an illness, right? Whatever the manifestation of an illness might be that takes over and eats the brain up, or that's takes all the bandwidth out of the brain.

42:49 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all illness, all that shit comes from the fucking reactive mind, or you know, there's but but don't you think that your this autoimmune situation that you had going on was also contributing to that pr that takeover, or vice versa. Yeah, it's it's a so the way I like to explain it too is like spirit, nothing is above spirit. Your body is not in control here. Okay, the spirit, like from what I believe, is that we are a body, a spirit, and a mind. So we're not our body. This is just like a tool that we're using, the vessel that we're walking around in.

43:30 SPEAKER_00: So if that's true, the body can't give itself a fucking illness. So what's causing it? You are the sp the being. So I knew that my state of mind, like where I was at, was causing that. But also, we do have a body, and I wasn't taking care of it. I never had in my life. I ate fucking cereal and hot dogs and McDonald's whenever I wanted because I didn't gain weight, and I thought, well, that must mean I'm healthy.

43:59 Michael: Well, you were working out like an animal seven days a week, right?

Gut Health Autoimmune Clues And Diet

44:02 SPEAKER_00: No, not as a dancer.

44:04 Michael: Hell no.

44:05 SPEAKER_00: Oh, I thought you were like you were queen of the scene and and and dancers after after I had Nova, I was a workout for Reek, but as a dancer, I didn't start working out till I was like 34.

44:20 Michael: Really? Yeah. So what was this? So what was involved with the the the biological side, the the the the body side, yeah. What happened with with the illness and and how did how did these two things come together for you and and what was the come up its what was the awakening point where you the the phoenix is risen? I gotta get out of this.

44:43 SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I have a phoenix on my neck because of this story. It when the field auditor, like I told you earlier, when she said there could be something wrong with your body, and when you have something wrong with the body, if you try to like go do auditing, it may not work because that can make sense to you, right? So she go see about your body, and immediately I was like, maybe there's like something I can actually do about this. So I went and got my blood work done. It wasn't until about a year and a half later that I found a functional nutritionist who looked at my gut, aka my poop, and was like, cool, you have autoimmune, you have gut dysbiosis, which means the good bacteria and bad bacteria balance in your gut is off.

45:35 SPEAKER_00: And you also have like gut lining issues. So my gut lining was tearing and toxins were leaking out. Jesus. Which more people than not are dealing with this, in especially in America, because the standard American diet is so bad, it is lighting everyone's guts on fire.

45:54 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.

45:55 SPEAKER_00: So I fixed my diet, no gluten, dairy, sugar, alcohol for almost four years. And like as soon as I started tackling my mental issues from the body, I started to feel better, like almost right away. It was like there's a it's very powerful what you put in your body. And I learned all about inflammation and what foods cause inflammation and the gut-brain connection. So if your gut's not doing well, your brain's not.

46:38 SPEAKER_00: And I did.

46:40 Michael: Yeah, that's fantastic. And and and did that change was it the change? Was it the acknowledgement? Was it the active part of your brain? Or or a combination of all of them that helped you get through the postpartum. And and as we said, as he told me once, you know, it was I don't know if it was as much as like uh I woke up one morning and decided I am woman, hear me roar. I'm it's I'm cool with being mom and wife and family. And that that that was really compelling to me.

47:14 SPEAKER_00: That didn't happen until I had already healed. I had lost the weight that I had gained, and and I reversed my autoimmune. I spent the first like three and a half years of Nova's life. Well, so the first year's COVID. I'm at home, I'm losing my mind.

47:31 Michael: All the times to have that happen, right?

47:33 unknown: Oh my god.

47:38 SPEAKER_00: I so what what the way the timeline of this is in December of 2020, literally, like almost a year after Nova was born. My friends. Posted something about what she does, and you can join her team for$21. And I realized, like, you know, I need something to do. Something to put my attention on. And that was two months after I had found out about my autoimmune and like what was going on with my body. And I had begun searching for answers, right? Like as soon as I found that out. And another thing you should know as Scientologists, we don't believe in psych meds.

48:20 SPEAKER_00: Like, absolutely know that we're not going near that. So with that knowledge, I also knew I wasn't going to take meds for what was going on with me. So I was looking for answers. So I started working with this direct sales company and started like feeling a lot better. But that sort of propelled my, you know, I went back into hustle mode. And I was so successful. So it took my mind off of yeah.

48:49 Michael: But you're replacing one correct.

48:55 SPEAKER_00: Correct. So now I'm like fully obsessed with building this team. And woo, and I was so good at it, and I was so successful so fast that I got addicted to that feeling. And I forgot that I was a mom and a wife. And then I started my own functional nutrition business and helped like over a thousand women lose weight, reverse their autoimmune. And I was, I got obsessed with that. And then it wasn't until what was it, like February of 2024, where again, because of something I was doing in Scientology, I had this epiphany of like, oh my God, like I've hated being a woman my whole life.

49:37 SPEAKER_00: I'm not even being a mom. I'm being a dude. And that's where I'm comfortable. It's not me. That's not me. Like I am, I'm just afraid to be a mom. And I'm afraid of what that means. It's weak. It's I used to look at stay-at-home moms and be like, oh, that's all you do.

49:59 SPEAKER_03: Right.

50:00 SPEAKER_00: Oh, you don't work. Well, I have my own business and I make like six figures a month. And I thought like that's what made me worthy. So it wasn't until then that I had that epiphany of like, what am I doing?

Replacing Pain With Hustle And Money

50:13 SPEAKER_00: And even though making money was like fun at first, it got to be like very stressful to be the one that had to uphold now this level of success.

50:25 Michael: Especially if you got it, if you're holding yourself to that standard, right?

50:28 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

50:29 Michael: And it's like a drug addiction. You you have to feed that addiction too.

50:34 SPEAKER_00: And that's bad because anytime you go affect to anything, you're no longer cause over it. And you're no longer in control. And I was totally affect to money. It my happiness for the day depended on the number in my stripe account.

50:49 SPEAKER_03: Really, yeah.

50:50 SPEAKER_00: And my poor husband and son were like, they're like second, or they're over there. And like I just it was wild, man. And I would have stood up for that cause like nobody's business until I saw a different perspective of wait a second, like moms and wives are the most important people. Successful men all have an important woman supporting them.

51:18 SPEAKER_03: Right.

51:19 SPEAKER_00: Kids need their mothers around.

51:23 Michael: The way that you the way that you're talking about this almost makes it sound like all of this was an extension of the postpartum. Yeah. You know? And and as I said it, and as I said at the outset, it's kind of like moms are such an important just being a mom and being a caregiver, which is, you know, a lot of the people that listen to this, they're listening because of the caregiver issues. And I just, you know, let's just get back to basics here. Being a mom in and of itself, as you said, your stay-at-home mom, that's a full-time job.

52:00 Michael: No shit. It really is. And now we demand that women get out in the workplace and work, and and God bless you if you do. I'm not saying one's right and one's wrong. What I am saying is that give, you know, pat yourself on the back, mom, for doing all the things that you're doing. And that goes for the vast majority of people. Of course, there's always exceptions. But all these things that you were you were almost like self-sabotaging, but continuing to grow. And you fell ass over backwards into tremendous success in spite of yourself.

52:31 Michael: Yeah. Or because of yourself. I don't know what's the right way to say it, but and that's that's pretty remarkable. It's amazing if you think of it from that perspective.

52:40 SPEAKER_00: Thank you. I mean, I think that everything leads to something, you know, and everything has like I always say that postpartum was the most awful thing I've had to go through, but it's also my biggest gift because it made me a much more caring person, a much more compassionate person, a much more selfless person. It made me understand, like before I'd be like, what do you mean anxiety? Like, fucking toughen up, butter.

53:10 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right, right.

53:12 SPEAKER_00: No, like it's not, I had no compassion. It gave me so much compassion for humanity. And I was able to like really transform who I was, and it was multiple stages of that, like you said.

53:27 Michael: And that's what that's what is remarkable to me. And that's what really strikes me in this conversation. And then I also remember you telling me that Noah said to you, I'm just paraphrasing basically, I want my wife back, wasn't that it? And that was a real slap in the face.

53:42 SPEAKER_00: He knocked on this door. Yeah, I always used to shut it. Like, don't bother me.

53:47 unknown: Okay.

53:47 Michael: When the money, yeah. I've got the I've got the the money printer in here, right? Yeah.

53:53 SPEAKER_00: While you're taking a nap, sweetie, I'm making the dollars here. And that's also another thing that happened is I just had no respect for him.

54:02 SPEAKER_03: Really?

54:02 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that sucks. That's how you know, like, there are gender roles, there's a reason why we're women and we have periods and cycles that are insane that were like, there's a reason why our bodies carry life, like, because we're not meant to be men. Yet here we are acting like them. So because I was like this masculine macho, look at fuck, look what I'm doing, and I provide for my family. I would look at my husband and be like, bro, like, what are you doing? And I just lost all respect for him. And so he knocked on my door and he was like, Hey, like, we need to go to the church.

54:41 SPEAKER_00: So, you know, as a Scientologist, yes, our our values and principles are rooted in that. So the way that we handle our issues is via that. So he's like, We need to go. And I was like, I'm not fucking going. Like my life, mine, is amazing. I have 200 clients. I'm like one of the top certified functional nutritionists on Instagram right now. Like, you can what do you mean? What's the problem?

55:13 Michael: Everything smells great to me.

55:15 SPEAKER_00: What are you bitching about? I make all the money and you get to take a nap in the middle of the afternoon, Daddy. Like, what is the problem? Like, I was still healing through whatever that selfish, just me, me, me all the time.

55:31 Michael: Interesting.

55:32 SPEAKER_00: And so we did go, and that's kind of what sparked this awareness of my behavior, my actions, and what are they creating, not just for me, but for my other dynamics, for my son, for my like my mom and dad. So I like to say this short story, but like my mom and dad live three minutes away. And during this time that I was building my business and it was like booming, booming, booming, like I never saw them. My mom would call, I would ignore her phone calls.

Choosing Family Over Status And Success

56:06 SPEAKER_00: Can you guys come over for dinner? No, sorry. Like I got clients to close. And my relationships with people around me were terrible. And it wasn't until I like released all of that and made that shift, that awareness of like, okay, what am I doing and for what? And what's it creating for my dynamics? My mom and dad, my son. It's not creating the best effect with the people I love.

56:39 SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

56:40 SPEAKER_00: Sure, I may be making a lot of money and helping people, but to what cost? At what cost? And so now, okay, I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I don't make nearly as much money, but I have the best relationships with my son, with my husband, with my mom and dad. Like my son looked at me one day when he was three and a half, was like, uh, he asked me to play with him, and I said I couldn't. I was in the kitchen doing something for work. And then I put my phone down and I went out there about five minutes later, and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna play with you.

57:15 SPEAKER_00: He's like, No. He's like, you always have something more important to do. Oh and I was like, That's a kick in the stomach, right? Oh my god, like, what am I doing? So, and you have to also take into consideration just what we are fed on a daily basis since we're uh growing up. Like, no one was like Claude, you know, I hope you find a really great husband who takes good care of you, makes money. Like, those weren't the values that were we were taught. It was go make your money, be independent, like don't count on a man.

57:57 Michael: Yeah, and you know what I'm saying? At this point in your life, this is where you were able to really take a step back from your own quote unquote illness and say, I'm I'm gonna be care, I'm gonna be a caregiver by caring for me. And by the way, that's the best thing I could do.

58:13 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like where can I, what is my most powerful role where I am not only beneficial for myself, but where I can make an impact on my son, an a positive impact on my husband, on my friends, on the planet, like enough just like how can I survive the best? But who can I be to help everyone around me survive better? And that made having that meant having to sit down and actually be there for my son and put him first and actually be there for my husband and allow him the chance to lead, which is horrible, by the way, for a woman who's led herself her whole life.

59:01 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, now I gotta sit down and trust you to lead. This is terrible.

59:05 Michael: This is terrible. But the way you couched it there, Claude, was so powerful in saying, Well, I just used your own word. You the most powerful you was all the things that you just described, and and acknowledging that, coming to that realization. I mean, that's that's gotta be game changing. I mean, game changing. And it and it has been for you. And I now I usually do this at the beginning of every episode, but I'm gonna do it now here because this is a great transition from all this. What are you doing now?

59:37 Michael: What do you got going on that's got you fired up, excited? I know you were wind and dying all over the country a couple of weeks ago and in in your work capacity, and that sounded awesome. Um but tell you know, like how how are you working now to help all these people that you're helping? And what do you and it'll be in the the episode description and all that, but what got Claude all fired up these days?

1:00:02 SPEAKER_00: So I became a very active volunteer for my church. And in Scientology, when you volunteer at a church, it's called being on staff. So we have a church here in Las Vegas, and you know, they need they need people to like help keep the church there. And I decided that I wanted to help my human, like mankind and also my group by giving my time to that. And so that's been like a huge change in my life since November of last year. And my husband and I decided to actually join forces where before it was very much my business and he was trying to do his business and we were separate.

1:00:44 SPEAKER_00: So we've come together. We create very funny, relatable marriage and parenting content just to give people relief from the mess that is our world today. And we have a a page called the Velinskys on TikTok, Instagram, and Facebook. And so we do that. And then we also we don't pursue it actively, but we do get called to do dance and choreography jobs every now and then, which you know, they're those are always amazing.

What Claude Does Now And How To Connect

1:01:14 Michael: You gotta love that.

1:01:15 SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's cool.

1:01:17 Michael: Yeah, I mean, some of the people you've worked with, go ahead, drop some of the names because it's pretty, it's pretty impressive.

1:01:23 SPEAKER_00: J Lo, Chris Brown, Pussycat dolls, Avra Levine.

1:01:28 Michael: I've told you I love Avra Levine. Ever since she first came out, I've loved her. I thought she I thought she was. Oh my god.

1:01:34 SPEAKER_00: And she's Canadian, and so am I. And I was like, oh, this is awesome.

1:01:37 Michael: Like Yeah, there you go.

1:01:39 SPEAKER_00: Yeah.

1:01:40 Michael: Yeah. So I really hope people find you, follow you, and check out your videos and and the work that you're doing. And I you're just you're you're you're just such an inspiration on on the level because you're so real about your experiences. So I I really thank you for being here and bringing that human aspect to all these people who listen. And and hopefully more will follow here because of you and you being here and the message will be heard.

1:02:12 SPEAKER_00: And I hope that all the women out there, if you could drop my personal Instagram at Glow Up with Clode, like if you are struggling, you can always reach out to me. Like, there is no judgment here. I don't like, I don't, there's no program that I have. I'm not gonna sit there and be like charge you for anything. I just I want women to know they have someone to go to if they are struggling with postpartum.

1:02:39 Michael: God bless, absolutely. You know, especially in light of the the unfortunate media coverage that this this Clancy case has has garnered. Um but if anything else, if nothing else, maybe something good will come of it, and there'll be more people understanding the reality of of this. So Claude Racine, thanks. Thanks so much. I really love it.

1:03:00 SPEAKER_00: My pleasure. Thank you so much for having me on, Michael. Bye.

1:03:07 Michael: Postpartum depression isn't a personal failure, guys. It's it's not a lack of gratitude or a flaw in character. It's a heavy biological and psychological storm that no one should have to weather alone. If you're a new parent sitting in the dark right now, feeling like you've lost your footing or your sense of self, give yourself some permission to drop impossible standards. You don't have to perform for anyone, and you don't have to fix everything today. Reach out, name what's real, and allow yourself to be supported.

1:03:47 Michael: A huge thank you to Claude Racine for being here and being her raw, honest, strong harp on her sleeve person. Uh, she's just fantastic. So make sure you check out her work and connect with her community online from the description here.

Closing Message For Parents In The Dark

1:04:04 Michael: And until next time, keep holding it together, even if it's just kinda.