Allan Houston and Tamara Houston: What Does Radical Acceptance Look Like At Home

Caregiving When Crisis Hits

1:16 Michael: Alan Houston and Tamra Houston are here with me today to talk about caregiving and what we expect of it and what are some of the surprises of it. Because we usually think about like a smooth transition or what we're gonna do with our kids. And sometimes it's the slow shift of responsibilities as a parent ages or structured decision making around a loved one with mental illness or otherwise. But what happens when crisis strikes, right? What happens when a family member is standing at the crossroads and there's nowhere left to go?

1:58 Michael: What does it take to open your front door to adjust your entire household? And the Houstons have a big household full of kids. What does it take to bring in an adult, another adult who is struggling? You know, and they're alone and they've got complex mental health and developmental disabilities. The Houstons did exactly that. They're gonna talk to us today in a raw and open way about how it was for them to expand their household under these pressures. We're gonna talk about the impact on their home.

2:42 Michael: Uh what considerations, if any, were there? How did they talk to their kids about it? What was the involvement with the kids? And what's it like to navigate a fragmented healthcare system while protecting your family, protecting your loved one, protecting yourselves, your marriage, your identity? So I'm really pleased that I can welcome Alan and Tammy Houston to the show today and talk to all of us about their journey and the journey of their loved one. Welcome, welcome, everybody.

What We’re Excited About Now

3:18 Michael: I am here with Alan Houston and the real captain, the real head of the team over there, Tammy Houston, Better Half, his lovely wife. Um, so thank you guys so much for being here and to talk to me and the gang about uh your journey and certainly the journey of your family, which I which is really the most important thing. But before we get started, I have to say this. I've just got to get it out of the way. Thank you, Alan. Thank you for finally giving the town a championship for two for two reasons.

3:53 Michael: Not number one, because the the town needed a championship, and number two, just to make everybody stop complaining all the time.

4:03 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

4:04 SPEAKER_01: It's a two-sided coin.

4:06 Michael: What's that?

4:07 SPEAKER_01: It's a two-sided coin. It really being a part of it. I do.

4:12 Michael: I know. I'll yeah, it's no, but congratulations seriously on that one. But I ask everybody this on this.

4:17 SPEAKER_03: Nixon five.

4:17 Michael: What's that?

4:18 SPEAKER_03: Nixon five.

4:20 Michael: Nixon five?

4:21 SPEAKER_03: Yeah.

4:21 Michael: Isn't that what we said last year? So I'm gonna ask every I'm gonna ask you guys what I ask everybody, just not to put you on the spot or anything. But Tammy, tell me something. What's got you excited? What are you working on these days? What are you what are you got getting fired up about, you know, just on and personal business, whatever it might be?

4:41 SPEAKER_03: You know, I am just getting fired up about the fact that our youngest is in high school. And what that means to me is I'll have a little more time to work on some things that I have maybe put on the back burner while, you know, driving, cooking, cleaning, and just trying to help my children along the way. So I'm looking forward to investing in my dreams. And those dreams are to point people to the faith in Christ. So that's my journey, and I've uh been excited to go back into it.

5:30 Michael: Yeah. Well, I mean, it's it's I mean, you only have a few kids, right? I mean, guys, they have seven children.

5:38 SPEAKER_03: Seven, they're very counting.

5:40 Michael: Seven.

5:41 unknown: Yeah.

5:42 Michael: All right. Alan, tell me what's got you excited. And I I I hope I know what your answer is. Tell me what you you're fired up about.

5:50 SPEAKER_01: I think pretty similar to Tammy, you know, this third this is 30 years that we've celebrated our 30th anniversary. And as you as we mentioned earlier, our seven children, and and and have it happened on the 30th year of me coming to New York and being a Nick, and then all of a sudden you you experience a summer like this. I think for me, it's just having things kind of be lined up, you know.

6:20 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

6:20 SPEAKER_01: You know, having watching the kids, you know, at this new stage of young adulthood. And as Tammy mentioned, we've had some really impromptu time just to stay connected and build on our relationship and seeing her get fired up about some things that she has not been able to do. Yeah, I just, I just I'm excited about it all, to be honest. I mean, I'm blessed. You know, God has given me a portion of health. And so seeing others grow, seeing others get better, seeing others have the opportunity to fulfill their dreams and and recognize their dreams before you can fill them.

7:02 SPEAKER_01: But I think a lot of what we get excited about is is, like she said, pointing people to the faith that allows them to recognize their call and their dreams, and being able to just have more space and time to do that.

7:17 Michael: And it's and and no matter what that faith may be, it's so much more important now than ever, I think. The world is just it's got me sad on a lot of levels. But so thank you both for that. And and I will say this every time I talk to Tammy, it's on the phone, she's getting it's on the on the screen on her phone, it's she's in the car somewhere, driving somebody someplace, at a soccer field, some kind of a field. So she is the hardest working woman in show business, so to speak. Right? But I thought you were gonna say you were excited because the season's starting, but I guess that's kind of a secondary excitement.

7:53 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's always gonna be exciting, you know, when it when it comes. But I feel like every day for us is a game.

8:01 Michael: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point.

8:03 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I get excited about getting up in the morning and and playing a new game, you know, because being in this field for so long where you're not able to do it anymore, you have to get excited about a new game. And I'm excited about every day being a game and helping, you know, play a role in winning in a new in a different way.

A Sister Attacked With Nowhere To Go

8:23 Michael: Well, you guys are definitely winning. And and along those lines, so is your sister Tammy.

8:27 SPEAKER_03: And and oh my gosh, she's amazing.

8:29 Michael: She really is. She is such a character. And I was hoping that you could tell the story about our vacation that you and I took to the north north midwest a while back. And how did that come about and and why and and and just tell everybody about what was going on and and what you guys decided to do?

8:50 SPEAKER_03: Yeah. Well, my sister, you know, she was in need of help, and she had been attacked, and she was recovering in a medical hospital, and upon release of being healed from the attack, she really had nowhere to go. So my mom and I got busy looking at options for her, and she's 700 miles away from me. She was in Michigan. And so, you know, they tried a couple different options, and Jill landed in a situation that Jill felt was just not for her. It was not beneficial. And she called me and she said, Look, I get me out of here, really, is what she said.

9:46 SPEAKER_03: And she called every day. And and every day it was, how long does it take for you to get me out of here? And so, you know, I'm you know, pounding the pavement here in Connecticut now, while she is in a situation that she didn't want to be in. And so out of, you know, desperation, I was reminded of a dear friend of mine who I know had overcome some challenges uh with her own family. And so I reached out to her and I said, Hey, you know, I'm I I need to help my sister. She's got to get out of where she is.

10:38 SPEAKER_03: And I said, but I just it's I have no idea or or plan or how to to maneuver in the mental health space so that I can get her the help that she needs. And she said, Well, you gotta call my friend Mac. And when she said that, she's like, Yeah, this is a job for Mac. And I was thinking, like, who is this guy? Like MacGyver, you know? You sound like a superhero. And sure enough, she connected us. And wow, instantly the the uncertain began to be certain. Under your guidance, I saw a path for my sister.

11:33 SPEAKER_03: I'm merely a passenger, I believe, on her journey. And you know, she was kind of in the breakdown lane. And here comes Mac to rescue us. And, you know, I didn't know who you were, but we we met, and then I had never seen you in person. We only spoke on the phone. And you said, hey, listen, I got to get eyes on your sister. And I said, Well, you know, she's in Michigan. You're like, no problem, let's get on a flight. So it's about five in the morning, and I'm going to meet Mac to go help my sister on a path forward, right?

12:14 SPEAKER_03: And I mean, I'm telling my husband, I'm going to meet up with some guy, and he's like, Who's this guy?

12:19 Michael: Yeah.

12:20 SPEAKER_03: But I've never met him, I've only talked to him, but he's an attorney, and he's going to help my sister because she needs help. And I ran into you, you know, it was kind of those awkward things like, okay, how am I going to point him out? You know, how am I going to figure out who this guy is? But I don't know, our eyes kind of locked, and it was just like instantly, it was like, that's got to be him. And I said, Are you Mac? And he said, Yeah.

12:51 Michael: Well, I think I described myself as the only probably guy that looks like Mr. Clean walking around that early in the morning looking for you. So, but no, I listen, I I I appreciate the the sentiment and the kudos, but really, this is about this is really about two things that you've mentioned already. Number one, the acknowledgement and the recognition that this system, and your your sister's tied up not only in the mental health system, but she was also in the developmental disability system. So she had those two tandem things going on.

13:23 Michael: Plus, she was abused. So there was a lot here, guys.

13:28 SPEAKER_03: God bless her.

13:29 Michael: And and gosh, and she is the happiest, sweetest person you ever want to meet. But the point is that it takes strength, it takes introspection to understand that you don't know everything about some things, right? And that sometimes you have to reach out to other people. In this case, you reached out to our friend Val, and Val turned you on to our office and the services. But and the but the important thing is that you had a network to reach out to. And the second important thing, maybe first in his mind, but Alan reached reaching out to your husband and going to him and saying, I need to do something about this.

From “Should We” To “How”

14:12 Michael: So I'm curious for the either one of you, Alan. Did did did you guys have a talk about this? Because how a family gets into this, and particularly your situation is somewhat unique, right? Did you guys have the opportunity to talk and say, hey, should we get involved with this? Do we do this? How do we do this?

14:34 SPEAKER_01: I mean, for me, family's family is my sister.

17:17 SPEAKER_01: You know, I I there's really no other option, you know. For me, if it were my blood sister, I would do the same thing, you know. And and Tammy said, look, you know, we have to do something. And I've never been in a situation like this and where someone is, you know, your sibling is in need and and not in a safe environment. So there was really no, it was an emergency. You know, so it was there was really no should we, it was how. And that was really how I think Tammy has handled everything, you know, in in life.

18:03 SPEAKER_01: We've had you know situations that come up and it was just let's get right to it. And so that was my thing was how can I support? How can how can we make this happen? And because God has given us the ability to you know support like this when we need to. And so that's that's why we're here.

18:29 Michael: Yeah, and I think I mean I think you said it fantastic. It's the it's not a question of should we, it's how are we going to. And and you know, people from different walks of life and different experiences have different abilities and different ways to respond to those two questions, you know, should we and and or how do we? You know, most families that I talked to were talking to folks with immediate families, so it's their kids or it's their husband or or wife. And this was an interesting situation because again, it involved Jill, who was, as Tammy said, 700 miles away in sunny Michigan.

19:07 Michael: God.

19:09 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was raining, I think, when we went.

19:11 Michael: There was snow on the ground. It was yeah, yeah. But but an interesting question comes up very often, at least in my mind. And this goes to any family that's dealing with with at least one member of the family who has some kind of mental incapacity.

Preparing The Kids And The House

19:28 Michael: And now we're talking about your kids, right? You had seven kids, and at the time, a couple of them were still kind of little.

19:36 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

19:36 Michael: And and I remember actually along those lines, I remember seeing a couple of them peeking their heads in while we were talking at your house. And I remember Alan walking in looking shell-shocked. And and but did you guys have the ability or or did you have the need, the desire, or did you have a conversation with your kids about their aunt and and what this would look like, Tammy? Did you did you We did?

20:00 SPEAKER_03: You know, fortunately, I you know, Alan and I worked really hard to try to help my children establish a relationship with their extended family. So they knew Jill, you know, we would drive to Michigan and we'd we'd go up and see her and go hang out at Chick-fil-A and, you know, or whatever, whatever outing we could uh muster up as a family. And, you know, so they they knew Auntie Jill and they had a relationship with her. And and I explained to them from the very beginning, you know, she's a little different, but she's my sister and don't mess with her.

20:39 SPEAKER_03: No, so no, but they they saw they saw how Alan and I interacted with her and loved her. And so they did the same. When I explained to them, you know, Auntie Jill's been hurt, she's gonna come and live with us for a while. We had a family meeting, Alan and I and the children. We just said, you know, when she comes, we're, you know, we're going to, you know, be mindful that we have a house guest. And really, we were focused on setting the environment for Jill. We were decorating her room. We were, you know, and I let them know also at with the excitement in welcoming my sister into our home.

21:27 SPEAKER_03: I also let them know that, you know, if you ever feel like, you know, sh you're you're uncomfortable, or if she makes you feel uncomfortable, or if there's any sort of concern that you have, you know, your dad and I are here, and you know, you guys are our priority. And and Jill's coming along into our home as a guest, and we're gonna treat her that way. But at the same time, I wanted them to feel comfortable too. So yeah, we talked about it.

21:58 Michael: I I I think that I think that that's a home run, the way you describe it, having the family meeting, having the the sit-down with them. Uh, did they help you help to decorate and pick out stuff for her room?

22:08 SPEAKER_03: Oh, they did. And you know, it was it was really I I wanted them to feel a part of it all as well. And so it was all a part of just the preparation for this big adjustment. And again, we feel like we're passengers on Jill's journey. And we just wanted to be as helpful. We wanted to focus on keeping a calm environment, which was really pretty cool. You know, it really caused us to exercise self-control around Jill, you know, being mindful that, you know, she's on the recovery, you know, part of her journey.

22:46 SPEAKER_03: And let's, you know, make it as peaceful as possible. So it really caused us to dial in our own, you know, feelings and emotions. And it was really, I think, beneficial.

23:01 Michael: Well, and I think that that's huge. You know, I dialing in your feelings and emotions about it is one thing to say, it's another thing to do entirely. And to include the kids, uh it's just fantastic. And I I was just I could just imagine them wanting to decorate. I let my daughter decorate her room and it's just I gave her a bunch of money and it was just money just thrown right out the window, you know. But she enjoyed it, you know, she did it, and and she loved every minute of it. But Alan, one of the things that that I always get concerned about in these situations is that that kid who isn't getting the attention because the other child d needs so much.

23:41 Michael: And so sometimes those the other kids in the home feel neglected or left out. Did you go through any of that with your kids, or was it just Auntie Jill's here, this is awesome? What do you think?

23:55 SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I think the way Tammy described it is how it actually played out. I mean, we you know, fortunately we had the capacity to give her, you know, her space, and she she's a sweet, she's so sweet, you know. She just loves her. Yeah, so she just wanted to she just wanted to be respectful of our space, but you know, the kids developed just a it's an incredible bond with her. They would love when she'd have have dinner with us, you know, watch shows and go to games. And and so I think that that was healing for for Jill, but it was also it was just a really a great growth and development process for the kids and for us because you know we we're fortunate and to see that you have to give yourself, give your space and to someone else is important.

24:55 SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I didn't feel there was a lot of uh tension or or conflict. I think just because of the heart and the spirit of Jill, and I think our kids enjoyed and respected her space as well.

25:10 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they would be the older kids, so they were nine, eleven, twelve, uh, thirteen, fourteen, seventeen, twenty, and twenty two. And the older kids would say, Hey Jill, I'm gonna go, you know, after school to X, Y, and Z, Chipotle, let's say. And she would, and they'd say, You want to go? And she would say, Sure, I'll go. And so they even enjoyed having one on one time with her. And they, you know, there was no stigma with you know, them going out with their aunt and having a meal at a restaurant, even if she might Stare a little too long at someone, or, you know, maybe say something that might be a little catch you off guard type moment.

25:58 SPEAKER_03: But they they just, I think they took on what the tone was set in this house. We we we love on one another. And we just loved on Jill. I miss, I miss her now that she's settled in her own little spot.

26:16 Michael: But no, I mean you miss her in a good way. She's because she has moved on to her own, you know, the next step. She's moved on to the independent. That's right.

26:24 SPEAKER_03: Thanks to all of the support and services of Guardian Adlide. I mean, she's, you know, going to the Mets game. She's, you know, learning how to budget her money. You know, she's going on all kinds of excursions and, you know, figuring out how to balance her checkbook and, you know, the wraparound services that you have pointed her to and that she's receiving, you know, at first I was all about just, you know, kind of wrapping my arms and keeping this wounded sister of mine uh safe. But then as she healed because of all of the beneficial programs and the social work really that came through Guardian of Lightham.

27:14 SPEAKER_03: I mean, I can't thank Sarah enough. She was able to heal here and recover enough to say, I'm ready for that next step. And, you know, I only wanted to keep her safe, but I had to let her go. And she is soaring and she continues to soar, and she's awesome.

27:34 Michael: She is. And and you're very fortunate because she is very sweet. You know, not everybody has that luxury.

27:41 SPEAKER_02: I stand.

27:42 Michael: And and she loves she loves herself a good Chipotle and anything else. And she always told me she was going to take me to some games. I still haven't gotten the invite. I don't know if I was forgotten.

27:53 SPEAKER_03: We'll have to plan that.

27:54 Michael: Yeah, that'd be fun. She uh she brings out a a good side of of you guys in many, many ways. And I'm just thinking, you know, as as I'm listening to you talk about the the guy the way you rallied around her as a family, but you also pointed out the importance of assembling, and I know Alan, this is probably more Tammy's involvement, assembling Tammy, the the team of the providers you were just talking about, and having the ability to sit back as her mom, not as her mom, as her sister, uh acting like a mom, because you said you wanted to hold her so tight, it's like the mama bear instinct.

Building Bonds Without Stigma

28:39 Michael: But but did do you find difficulty in managing the moving parts that are involved with with her care?

28:49 SPEAKER_03: Because she's got she has and had even more, but now she still has moving parts, and there's you know she's she's got quite a lot from medical to mental to therapy to you know just learning how to eat well. But when she was living here, fortunately, you know, we have uh a community, a village, and it she did need a lot of transportation to get to all of her appointments on her wellness journey. And you know, that was just a matter of asking for again help from those who love us and in turn love m my sister.

29:34 SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, sometimes we'd be in a jam. I mean, there's only I can only drive one car at one time and go in one direction. And so, I mean, we would just get her to where she needed to be. And I think that was the greatest challenge, and we just had to call on our friends and you know, those in our village to lend a hand.

29:59 Michael: One of the important things I've been taught through the process of doing this podcast, I've had some experts on to talk about exactly that asking other people for help, or having your village, as you call it, come in and say to you, hey, I'm I'm here for you, I'm willing to help you. That's all wonderful, but one of the key components and that that I learned through this podcast is to be very specific about what you need, or be very specific about what you can offer. And as much as I don't believe that Tammy cannot drive more than one car at a time, because I she is a superhero.

30:41 SPEAKER_03: All by the grace of God.

30:42 Michael: Well, but but you know, I need somebody to help me give the kids a ride to school. I need somebody to help me, you know, do do this or that.

30:50 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

30:51 Michael: And being specific in in what you need becomes a a real important real important thing to be able to get that awkwardness behind you and to put the question out there. Hey, somebody's got to come and walk this dog for me. I can't get out of the house and do it. But I don't know. Do you think that that the emotional financial, you know, the logistical burdens that we're talking about here are kind of minimized in in this world in in the grand scheme of things in terms of caregiving? And I mean, from your perspective, did you it's just like, holy cow, this is way more than I thought it was gonna be.

31:33 SPEAKER_01: I didn't really know what to expect, to be honest. It gave me a much better appreciation for what she may not have been getting, and and for what is needed in general to have the wraparound services. You know, just the nature of the condition, right, and talking to Sarah and just learning and kind of putting yourself in that mindset of what the experience must be like moment by moment, and then understanding how you're gonna navigate that was it's just an extremely you just you just you just have compassion, you just I have admiration, you know, for Jill.

32:22 SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, Sarah and I were just talking, like I don't know how I would be able to manage. And so you think about so many people who are are managing on their own and are lonely in this place.

Wraparound Services And The Village

32:37 SPEAKER_01: So it it I was just the more and more I think about it and just see you, the more blessed I am, just that I could we can just be here and she could have what she deserves. Um that that's that's the blessing.

32:55 Michael: What what what we all deserve, right? I mean mental health issues aside, the developmental issues aside, race, creed, color, sexual primary, whatever. We all deserve that basic decency. But I I love the fact that you said, and Sarah talked to me about the con Sarah and I talk constantly about all of our issues. Before she told me she's like, Oh, I just talked to Alan. It was such a great conversation because but I think it's it's great because you are Alan Houston, all right? I mean, you are, but to know that there's things that you don't know, and to say, hey, I I don't I don't know that much about this condition or these issues that may come up.

33:37 Michael: I don't know about what's out there, but I'll tell you what I saw is what she wasn't getting, and I want to do something to improve that. So I really encourage folks to do some digging. Take listen to podcasts like this, meet with families like you guys, because we don't all know everything there is to know. I I mean I am the worst basketball player in the world. If I have that question about it, I know who to go to, you know? But but so but I I think that we many of us and this goes to you, Tammy.

34:13 Michael: I mean, you are such the super mom with seven kids and and as you say, running all over the place. You did and did and did and kept going and going and going. Did this reaching out for help or reaching out for knowledge, education, to be it me and Sarah, to vow to anybody, did that give you kind of a sense of, I don't know, guilt? Were you embarrassed about it? Were you ashamed that you didn't know at all?

34:46 SPEAKER_03: You know what? My sister was diagnosed with uh this diagnosis at a very young age.

Seeing The Gaps In The System

34:55 SPEAKER_03: I think she was 13, so I was 15. And, you know, for me, diagnosis is discovery. It's a definition, but it doesn't define her, my sister. She was still my sister. She just, you know, had this particular challenge. I had challenges, you know, of my own, you know, and you know, and it's it's on a spectrum, right? But I just knew Jill. And there was a time when it was just she and I living together. She was 17 and I was 19, and we lived together for two years, and we didn't have wraparound services.

35:42 SPEAKER_03: And, you know, for all intents and purposes, she was not hospitalized until the very, very end when I was about to leave. And there was going to be a big shift in where she was going to go. And I think that just kind of and my excitement with graduating, you know, I just think she kind of spiraled out. But having spent those two years with my sister, and it was just us, and I was in college, it was like I became her protector. She was like the mascot, you know, where I went, you know, she she would sometimes come along.

36:24 SPEAKER_03: And so the stigma kind of evaporated because it was in my mind, this is just my sister, you know, like what are you looking at? You know what I mean? So, you know, having Jill around and in my life, you know, the schizophrenia was a part of her. It wasn't who she is. And I think knowing that we just kept plugging away, hopeful, for, you know, whatever options we could find. And I think I'm answering your question. But yeah, you know, there was no problem with me getting help because uh there was no stigma attached that I had to my sister's diagnosis.

37:20 SPEAKER_03: And I'm grateful that I have, I believe, passed that on to my children. That, okay, you have this diagnosis, but who are you really? You know? And Jill is Jill, and I'm just grateful to be able to walk alongside her.

37:38 Michael: Yeah, it's almost like she's been a gift to you and your family, right? Now, you guys you guys were together in college too, correct?

37:48 SPEAKER_03: We met our my senior year. Oh, really? And so he would c actually call looking for me, and you you you want to tell the story?

37:58 SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, we we we met right in New Year's. I was into my rookie season in Detroit. Tammy was a senior in Michigan State, and at the time, Jill and Tammy were living staying together. So I started to try to develop a relationship with Tammy. I would call and continue to call and and couldn't reach her for a good couple weeks. And um, I'm like, man, she's really busy. Um when when I would call, Jill would pick up. And and Jill was a perfect, you know, protection. She she was like, you know, no, not not anybody's just gonna be calling up in this house.

38:38 SPEAKER_01: So I would say, is Tammy, is Tammy there? And there'll be a like a two-second pause, and she'd be like, Jill would say, I'll tell her you call and just click, hang up. I'm like, sitting down. She don't know who I am. Wow. Like, man, it's like she didn't ask for name or anything. You know, I didn't so after a while, I was just like, wow, she's that's a I don't know who that is, but she is very protective. But you know, after a while I got to know that was the first, that was my first introduction to Jill.

39:06 SPEAKER_01: But uh and I would come up and and in in this, you know, get to know her a little bit more. But yeah, that was my first, that was my first time really getting to talk to Jill, but they lived together. And yeah, that was that was that was my Jill's story.

39:21 Michael: That's a good one. That's a good one. And I could totally see it knowing Jill. But so so Tammy, you got this uh caregiving thing down, man. You've been doing it since you were a teenager. You were a college athlete too, weren't you?

39:35 SPEAKER_03: No, I wasn't. No, no, no. No, no, Jill, Jill was my that's why I was asking.

39:43 Michael: She kept you busy. You didn't need sports on top of it.

39:45 SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah. You know, but she's sweet. And I know, you know, it's different for everyone with this kind of a diagnosis. So I don't want to minimize the journey. I mean, and there were times when she would be here, for example, and you know, when she was just starting the recovery journey here, and she would run down the stairs, and the kids would be in the kitchen, and she would say, Someone's under my bed. And they just ran out the front door. And my nine-year-old would be like, What are you talking about, Auntie Jill?

40:20 SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, she would say, Come, come look. And he would go with her, and God bless him in his sweetness. He would look under the bed and look up at his aunt and say, There's nothing there. And she would say, Okay, okay, I believe you. And, you know, so it was, you know, I guess it's all in just trying to radically accept what's happening and then focus on overcoming as much as possible.

Radical Acceptance In Real Moments

40:55 Michael: That's such a powerful word, term, radical acceptance. It really is. It's not easy to do. Did Ellen, was there ever any guilt or resentment? We got we can't do this because we have to worry about Jill. And was there any of that? I mean, a lot of people go through that, and it's and it's part of the process. And I I really tried to emphasize how okay that is and how normal that is.

41:20 SPEAKER_01: You know, again, I think our lives have been full of it's been busy. Uh our lives have been full of sacrifice. You know, Tammy has made tremendous sacrifices, the kids have made sacrifices. I've been on the road a lot, I've had to make some sacrifices. So for us, having seven and having a kind of a busy lifestyle, you just do what you can when you can do it. And you have to be intentional about it. And that's is no different, right, with Jill. Like there was no, we didn't really. I think that that is a powerful term.

41:59 SPEAKER_01: Radical acceptance really means that it is radical, that this is where we are, where we are, not where she is. Where where we are. And I think that that's kind of where that's what family's about. And so there was no room for, man, we can't do this because this, in my mind, because we're so blessed already. Like, who are who are any of us to make a complaint about anything when you know we we have the ability to help and to move and to be flexible. And that's from where I for from my standpoint, it's like I'm grateful that we have the flexibility and the ability to help.

42:48 SPEAKER_01: So that you don't really have a lot of room for, you know, not not being able to do something that you might want to do because so many people have sacrificed for you kids and for me. And Tammy has done that for me. So I don't, I've never really never thought about that.

43:10 Michael: You're very fortunate. Yeah. Just one last question based upon that, and I I I couldn't be more pleased with with this whole discussion and the way that you guys have taken such a healthy approach to this.

Love, Acceptance, And Hope

43:23 Michael: And and so thank you on on behalf of everybody listening, and thank you on behalf of Jill. Certainly.

43:32 Michael: What do you think is a great message to, you know, as we sort of try to wrap up here, there's families that are listening that are, you know, really struggling with this process or struggling to make the decision to go through this process. What what would you say to them about doing it, not doing it, or not having a choice and just not what what did Alan say? It's not should we, it's how are we going to?

43:57 SPEAKER_02: Yeah.

43:58 Michael: I think there's a lot, there's a lot to unpack there. What do you think?

44:03 SPEAKER_03: Well, I think, you know, it it starts with love and then acceptance, and then, you know, hope. And and that's kind of what those three things have driven actually drove me to you. You know, there is this person that I love who is struggling with this challenge, but I'm certain there's a way, a workaround, you know, there's there's gotta be a way. Maybe not all the symptoms, you know, that are associated with mental health or medical health, you know, go away, but there are so many therapies available to help make life, you know, livable.

45:06 SPEAKER_03: And and and you can have victory and success with the right support and the right therapies, be it medicinal or however. And so I would just say love, accept, and never stop hoping for for for what's ahead. The best is yet to. I believe Jill hasn't even hit her best yet. I think her best is still on the horizon.

45:36 Michael: That sounds like a mic drop moment to me. Boom. Guys, thanks so much. Thank you so much for being here again. Thanks so much.

45:45 SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much. Thank you.

45:51 Michael: Wow, boy, I'll tell you, opening your door to a loved one every day in any situation is tough.

Protecting Your Household Capacity

45:59 Michael: But when there's a crisis going on and you have, you know, these these um other issues that that compound it, it's an act of profound, uh radical love. It's it's it's certainly not a fairy tale, though. It takes intention, it takes firm boundaries, it takes real honest conversations uh within the whole family. And it and it has to take faith in a broken uh not faith that you can overcome the broken system that that's there to threaten to destroy your home, literally. So if you're stepping up and you're gonna care for a family member today, just remember that protecting your own capacity and your household safety is not selfish.

46:52 Michael: It's the only way that caregiving remains possible. And you don't have to hold the whole weight together. You know, you have to do to you don't have to hold the whole weight perfectly together, I'm saying. You you just have to hold it together a little bit. Just kinda.